Oy, you too, Dan? Isn't it pretty clear that Kerry meant "If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq" ... "like George Bush"?

Ogged: I generally support Kerry, but I don't think it's so clear that that's what he meant to say. His explanation sounds a lot like a bad excuse, and either way the general line of his statement was pretty dumb. Even assuming that he really meant to say "like George Bush" or something like that, it is insulting to hear a rich, pampered Ivy League grad attribute other people's political views to a lack of education.

Does it make a difference that Bush is also a rich, pampered Ivy League Grad?

This is stupid. Kerry says he meant "George Bush." The comment comes after another barb at George Bush. And there is, therefore no reason to believe that he said anything offensive about our men and women in uniform. And Sullivan's out of it. If the object of his remarks was George Bush, what the heck does he need to apologize for (to our troops).

I think you'd better retract, Dan.

More disappointing is Kerry's non apology where he takes aim at Republicans and says, "It disgusts me that a bunch of these Republican hacks who've never worn the uniform of our country are willing to lie about those who did."

Considering the military overwhelmingly votes Republican and many liberal Democratic students don't want the military to recruit on their college or law school campus because the millitary’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, does John Kerry really want to criticize Republicans lack of military service?

Also why does one military service now matter to people like John Kerry when previously it did not? Why when Bill Clinton ran against two very decorated war veterans in 1992 (George H.W. Bush) and 1996 (Bob Dole), Democrats like Kerry said military experience shouldn't be an issue? Bill Clinton actively avoided military service in Vietnam but still favored a more interventionist foreign policy than either of his two Republican opponents.

Given the contentiousness that still divides the baby-boomer generation over the efficacy and the morality of the Vietnam War, why do Democrats like John Kerry choose to continue to make this an issue? The Vietnam War is over, so why do people like John Kerry insist on refighting it?

OK, so the line is not as offensive as the New York Times report suggests

Oh yes it is. Since when do you take such a feeble attempt at spin at face value?

Kerry cannot speak of the military without his disdain and condescension breaking out. Current active duty, veterans and military families are QUITE aware of his attitude.

Hillary's too, for that matter. But Kerry is so much less capable than she.

By the way, you might want to extend your lit review a little bit WRT military levels of education. It is quite common for people to pursue degrees WHILE serving. Some of us even manage PhDs from places like Stanford, Cornell, MIT, Princeton ... while in uniform.

The depth of ignorance about military matters, the military community and service in uniform that one encounters among the middle/left is, frankly, pathetic.

Kerry should offer to apologize, just as soon as Bush apologizes to Americans for Iraq.

One of the most courageous things Reagan did was to apologize for Iran Contra. I strongly doubt we will ever see anything come close to that from Bush.

Thank God that too few dead people voted Democratic to elect that jackass President.

chsw10605

I don't have any doubt that when John Kerry made his crack he was directing it at George Bush, not at members of the military.

This is just not a guy who can pull his own weight in public controversies. What probably happened here is that Kerry indicated to the person or people who write his speeches the tone he wanted to take, did a quick review of the draft given him, and didn't notice that one particular line could be interpreted in more than one way. Now, naturally, he is outraged at the outrage directed at him, mostly by people playing to their base as he was trying to play to his, just doing it a lot better.

It's still remarkable to me that the Democratic Party chose a show horse liberal Senator from Massachusetts as its nominee in 2004, a man whose main claim to fame is his entry in the Guinness book for having married into more money than any man in the history of the world. In many ways John Kerry is the ideal candidate for winning Democratic Presidential primaries; he makes no Democratic interest group uncomfortable, comes from a safe Democratic state, thinks thoughts but no dangerous or unpredictable ones, and would never question the dominant role of campaign staff in the permanent campaign. He just hasn't figured out how to present himself to people who don't vote in Democratic primaries. He never will.

This headline is grossly misleading. Kerry lost because of something euphemistically known as the 'exit pole discrepancy.' His problems reading a speech had nothing to do with it.

This headline is grossly misleading. Kerry lost because of something euphemistically known as the 'exit poll discrepancy.' His problems reading a speech had nothing to do with it.

Kerry clearly meant Bush, not the troops. Once a Republican, I have no patience with these people anymore.

Related: During my senior in college, I thought about joining the military. A fake ID charge made the Army guys dissuade me from school to be an army officer. I looked at enlisting in the Marines. My degree was in history with a concentration in the Middle East. I have really mild asthma that has never caused an attack. I got a 99 percentile on the intelligence test and can (uh, could) run 10 miles in an hour. And my recruiter was going to have me do all sorts of lying about not having asthma in order to join.

A few months ago my buddy who works at a top consulting firm had a quarter-life crisis and was ready to join a police or fire department. However, during high school and college, he smoked pot maybe 20x and tried a few harder drugs a total of 3x. So he'll never be able to do any of that.

The OSS would have never put up with this shit. They probably recruited drunkards and reprobates.

The Vietnam War is over, so why do people like John Kerry insist on refighting it?

A fixation on re-fighting old battles is something that seems to be pretty common in older types.

Maybe it's their way of pretending they're still young, trying to convince themselves that something that ended more than 30 years ago was 'recent'.

As Bagdad starts to spiral down the drain the only thing that can save us is another big dose of Karl's own magical thinking. Forget the collapse of the plan to secure Bagdad, forget that the top British generals are saying that its time to strike their tents, forget that October's casualities are the highest in two years and ignore that the Brit's have had to evacuate their embassy in central Basra. It is all Kerry's fault.

Why talk of the horrors of Iraq. We all know that Kerry's attach on Bush's ignorance and stupidity in Iraq is really just a slur against our brave troops. If we all act like enough like stupid
sheep all our problems will disappear. Ignorance is strength.

I read your post title with excitement, because I thought you were going to make a fascinating point. Turns out you understood Kerry to be talking about the troops? I'd be embarrassed for you if I knew you better. The post title is correct, as you state in your update, but you got played into posting a discrediting response. Even Matthews immediately caught the reality of this "issue." Can't wait for your take on the next FOMC minutes.

I know two guys in military - Marines - in Iraq right now, and from what I hear from them all this talk of offense to troops etc etc just isn't the case with actual troops - it may have some play with COs but the grunts don't give a shit about politicians and what they spew. In fact for guys in country there's a strong sense, usually unexpressed, that most everything back home is so much bull shit.

So, although for sure Kerry's an idiot and hopefully this means an end to his [mal]lingering executive hopes - I have to agree with his expressed disdain for guys who never served claiming to know anything about what guys who do feel and think. I'd have to say the self serving platitudes of Bush et al are likely just as insulting to the average grunt as any idiocy that comes tripping out of Kerry's mouth.

Bush is on the campaign trail in "safe" Republican districts saying directly, with no need for interpretation, that a vote for the Democrats is the same as a vote for the terrorists.

It doesn't really get much lower than that, does it? This truly is a man who owes an apology to half, or more, of the American people and to the families of those who have died in Iraq. Remember his jokes about searching for WMD at the White House Correspondents dinner? Classy, no?

The Republicans have reached the point of hysteria as this election cylce winds down. They are grasping at straws.

Add me to the list of people who immediately understood the joke to mean what Kerry later said it meant-- that stupid Bush got stuck in Iraq. It took me a minute to understand what the hubbub even could be about, i.e. to see that the way it was worded it did literally apply to soldiers. Yes, yes, he's handled it like a clod, etc. But it was entirely evident to me what it meant.

I'm very disapointed that you are taking this position.

I though you were smarter then this.

I come here for you intelligent and insightful comments, so I expect better from you.

While I gave up on Kerry during the last campaign, I think you are completely offbase here.

I think a lot of the commentary here and elsewhere misses an important point. Kerry's intent (far-fetched post-hoc rationalizations aside) was no doubt well-intentioned. He was telling a group of college students to stay in school. But for being in school, many of those students would enlist. It's a natural fork in the road for someone aged 18-21. In our society, self-improvement through a college education is highly stressed and so his comments made perfect sense for his audience.

The vast majority of service men and women serve in the enlisted ranks and of course, don't have higher educations. These are the people who took the fork in the road that Kerry was advising against. Enlisted troops are intensely proud of their service, but also extremely sensitive to any suggestion that it is less valuable because of their rank, which is closely tied to their decision to forgo (at least for the moment) higher education. Kerry, being the tone deaf elitist that he is, trod right on that raw nerve.

Incidentally, I think this same thinking explains why the young Lieutenant Kerry could square his insults directed at the soldiers in Vietnam with his boastfulness regarding his own service. You see, he was better than them. He was an officer.